Sunday 25 March 2012

Cultural Differences or Just Plain Bad Manners?

This past week another person almost bumped into my baby's carriage with their shopping cart at the grocery. This time however it was not intentional like the disagreeable (I am trying to use a nice term here) old man who purposely bumped into my baby's carriage a few months back. She was cluelessly just dragging the cart behind her and not looking where she was going. I said a loud blasphemy and then she noticed us but said nothing while I complained that she was not watching where she was going and almost hit us. After almost ten years of living in Finland I know that people don't say sorry when they bump into you but it still ticks me off! That's one thing I still cannot get used to. And I still don't understand why they do it. What is it about the Finnish culture that caused this habit of not saying sorry? How hard is it to say?

There is also the habit of not saying excuse me and just steam rolling ones way through a group or crowd of people. I don't understand that either. How hard is it to say excuse me? Saying excuse me is such a strange thing here that when someone is blocking your path and you politely say, excuse me, it takes them a while to realize that you are talking to them.

Then there is the door slamming in your face that also ticks me off. If someone is right behind you coming through a doorway how hard is it to hold the door open for a second? Not saying hello to people you have met before is another pet peeve of mine. Luckily, not saying hello is not common in all circles. But when I worked in the University of Helsinki's Viiki campus this was very common. In one example, a few months ago, some plumbers my husband sent to the house came to check a pipe and then left when they were done without saying anything! I would not have known they were gone if I had not heard the door shut. What takes the cake are the maintenance men at my last work place. They would come to the lab, look around, not say hello, not ask for the person who requested them, and then just leave. A week or two later when you realize they never came and you called them they would say that they came and you weren't there. Then someone in the lab might say "I think I saw a guy in overalls poking his head into the lab a couple weeks back but he didn't ask for you". I sometimes wonder, are these behaviours really their culture, or is it just plain bad manners?

Unfortunately I found myself picking up the bad habit of not saying hello. Mostly because I felt stupid saying hello to people who never said anything back and just left me hanging. But recently I have been reading a new American best selling book called "Bringing up Bebe or French Children Don't Throw Food". In it the author mentions how important it is in France that children learn to greet everyone they meet and that their parents are constantly telling them to say Bonjour. I thought that's the same thing I was taught in Trinidad. In Trinidad it is considered very bad manners not to greet everyone you know with a good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good night or at least a hello. And I thought I really shouldn't forget these teachings and start to lose my manners too. Regardless of whether no one else around me exercises good manners at least I should.

12 comments:

  1. Some Trinis are forgetting to greet. This also pisses me off when I say Good morning and get no response.

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  2. I think it's great that you continue to display good manners and greet people, simply for the fact that you are saying to them, I acknowledge you, your presence and I see you.

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  3. I would say it is bad manners. I was also told as a Finnish kid to say hello to neighbors and people that I know. But I guess that is not the only manner people have forgotten in Helsinki and big cities in Finland.

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    1. I would rather say that only in Helsinki do people have any manners! Country folk, in my experience, are totally unaware of any etiquette.

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  4. I (Finnish) have been living abroad for nearly 25 years now. To be honest, I still am 'quilty' for not saying 'sorry' for everything; sometimes I by accident bump to somebody, try to get through a crowd etc; why should I say sorry? Its not a mortal sin in my eyes ... Another thing I really never ever say is 'I love you' or 'I really like you', that makes me uncomfortable; let alone when somebody says that to me, yaiks! In conclusion; it not being unpolite, we just dont express our feelings. In Finland its ok but here I do get comments for 'not having any feelings' which isnt true; I just dont like to say them ... I am polite when its expected, but for the rest, I supposee I am typical Finn ... Hauskaa kesän jatkoa sinne Suomeen (thats being polite ...).

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    1. Why should you say sorry? Because you have intruded on somebody! Yes, you are impolite and rude.

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  5. Thanks for your inside take on Finnish culture Anonymous.

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    1. (not the same Anonymous) Not so much Finnish culture as just bad manners. There is no excuse; Finns with a good upbringing say sorry and thank you and hello. It is true, though, that Finns try to avoid other people and contact with them when they can. This is seen as giving other people their space and privacy. Unfortunately, it comes through as lack of manners in an international setting, but it is not hostile, just ignorant. For example in England, on the other hand, you come across people who are deliberately, unprovokedly snotty and rude to you all the time. That is how the British spend their day: being mean to each other. Finns don't do that. I will choose Finnish ignorance over British malice any day.
      BTW I love your blog, you have great insights and perception. Keep on truckin'!

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  6. Many Finns ARE rude by international standards. Sadly many also fail to change their manners, when going to live abroad in countries where such behavior ISN'T the norm - and end up being considered to be "weird" by colleagues etc. there. I've seen this so many times with expats from Finland. Of course some of them do also make the transition, fortunately!

    Having lived & growing up in Canada, UK, Trinidad, Spain, etc. I learned to be polite. TOO polite, according to many Finnish friends! Some find it annoying, some just odd. Oh well..

    Opening the doors to a lady in Finland is an adventure, especially if you look like a Finn...Women here generally are very pleased & happy when a man who's obviously non-Finnish do this for them, I've noted. Such occasions are used to "prove" how lovely foreign men are, and how polite...Well, I always hold the doors open for ladies of all ages here. Very few seem pleased - they look at me suspiciously, make sure they grab the door firmly themselves (as if fearing that I will smash it on their faces!), and make it generally well understood that they do not need nor want me to open the door for them. C'est la vie!

    If I speak to them in English whilst doing this, the reception becomes far more pleasant, and I get a smile of approval - the foreign man is allowed to be polite :-)

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    1. Haha JaRiMi that's funny about the opening doors for Finnish women. Speaking of which the last time Shiv and I had lunch in Helsinki she held the door open for me to get into the restaurant with the baby caraige. She took a while to come inside and when I asked why she said cause everyone just walked past her into the restaurant after me while she held the door. That's anothet funny thing Finnish people do. And they usually don't say thank you while they do this.

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  7. When I first moved to The Netherlands I complained word for word of what you do. To this day I find it rude but I also know that is just the way it is. I too say excuse me, pardon me etc but I do not say I am sorry. For this seems to really throw them off. They look at me as if I have a horn in the middle of my forehead. I have on occasion when someone is really intrusive said a excuse you... The Dutch knowing English so well invariably hear it. I think they get it and some don't.
    I use to scratch my head a lot in utter disbelief and confusion when I tried to enter a train or elevator, they all seem to think it is okay to all come and go at the same time. The culture is what it is and where I am from it is considered very rude behaviour.
    The fact is I am the one who has to adapt or leave if it bothers me so much. I tend to look up etiquette before I travel. I also leave my expectations for what to is normal at the door. I find when I had expectations is when I get the most angry. This does me not a bit of good. I will say when I am feeling that a person or persons are inappropriate I state so. Many times I get another rude reply but also I have on occasion gotten an apology. That is nice but never do I expect it nor do I expect it to change. I simply must have a voice or I feel bad.
    So it is both culture and bad manners. But I think culture has the most influence. As I read more and more comments, stories of Northern western Europe it seems the more north one goes the colder it gets in the friendly behaviour sector.

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  8. American living here in the land of the lost words. This place is hilarious for all of the wrong reasons. I've met a lot of really cool people, but the random old people, teenagers and drunks are like heat-seeking missiles. No matter where you are, somehow, someway, they find a way to run into you. One of the funnier Finns I've met called this 'Finnish socializing'. No words, just collisions. But anyway, Finns aren't known for their polite manners or being anything but generally socially awkward. Hate to be so blunt about it, because, like I've said, I've met some cool people, but I also think it's my own expat nature that brings out others who've picked up for international social habits.
    Walk into a home with your shoes still on, though, or say the sauna's nothing really that special.... yeah, this country is hilarious.

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